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1

Montag, 17. Februar 2014, 19:39

k.k. Pallasch M1824 E.S. JUNG 1854 scabbard

Greetings to All!

I would like to show you an interesting M1824 Pallasch, with Jung produced scabbard in 1854.
Blade is having the standard dimensions:860/35/9mm, marked with FISCHER, there is also a rhombus form impression on the the side.
It is unusual to see an M1824 scabbard with post 1850 markings, this is one example, we already discussed an other anomaly here, an M1824 sabre with Jurmann sheath ;)
http://blankwaffenforum.de/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=8513



2

Montag, 17. Februar 2014, 19:41

Some more pics.

3

Mittwoch, 19. Februar 2014, 09:23

Hello Voci

I just read an autobiographical book from a Generals staff officer of the k.u.k. army, in which he tells also about his time when he started his army career as a Young Leutnant in 1903.
And he is telling about the proud cavallerymen and their mighty Pallasch they are still carrying.
I also read in some other contemporary literature from Pallaschs which were still in use in the late 1890`s and 1880`s.
It is also known that especially in the 1850`s and 1860`s a big lack of Sabres on stock and the Need of them, due to the wars in this period existed.
So they used "old" swords, which were not automatically recognised as old fashioned at this time.
So it seems to me quite understandable that if some spare parts were needed, that they were manufactured by one of the army suppliers like Jung.

Servus

Alex

4

Donnerstag, 20. Februar 2014, 22:27

Hello Alex, thank you for this additional information, it was very helpful, from the other hand,years 1850-1860-s are filled unanswered questions.
Just a few for consideration to the forum friends here:
-Fischer was a major supplier for the army, what happened to him int he beginning of 1850-s?Why did it disappear?Bankrupty?lost in competiton agains Jung or Jurmann?
-Why did we designed, and manufactured 4 cavalry swords in a short period of time, like M1845,M1850,M1858,M1861, was there a quality issue with any of them?
-If we were lack of swords, why did we sell many of them to the amrecian civil war, and why used old broadswords?

Voci

5

Sonntag, 23. Februar 2014, 15:39

Hello valentin!
I just agree with Alex! We (you and I) just having talked about Fischer and Jung but:
Additionaly I´d like to add that retired officers in the 1870/8/90ies used to wear their old swords (specially cav.off. and their pallasch or hussard sword) and uniforms from that time when they had retired (ca. 1850/60ies at big festivities f.i. Ausmusterung Militärakademie). ;)
A.E.I.O.U.

6

Montag, 24. Februar 2014, 21:19

Hello Voci

I could recommend you the "Standard"book "Mit blankem Säbel" (I guess the english title is " with drawn sword"), which explains a lot of the questions you are asking.
Mostly, a Quality improvement was the reasion to develop new sabre types, which defer to the old Patterns in material and production process.
When the 1859er were sold, there was no "big" war ahead and a Long term armament process was introduced.
The cavallery was not satisfied with this pattern, therefore you have the quick release of a new pattern.
but it took time to Exchange the old ones which were not liked by the troops.
Quite often, some of the old models were used for spare parts, which you can see today.
A lot of Patterns are mixed ones or small parts are from former Patterns.
According to my literature, even some regular troops wore Pallaschs in the 1880`s and it was a quite mixed Picture.
I have seen a photo from an "Ausmusterung" were a Husar carried a 1845 officers Model.

So I´m sure that o lot of strict regulations, which we are today believing in, were not executed in a strict manner.

Servus

Alex

7

Dienstag, 25. Februar 2014, 18:35

Thank you for your answers.
Do you guys have any data regarding produced quantity of this Pallasch?
I have seen them with more producers already:
-Fischer
-Paolo Landi
-Kraft